loras_renly | the teaches of peaches : conspiracy theory

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the teaches of peaches : conspiracy theory

While you're pacing in front of your TV in wait for the finale, LET'S TALK ABOUT FRUIT. The one that is relevant to our interests.

What do you think Renly's peach means? Does it come back to haunt us? Absolutely all opinions are welcome.

I was so baffled by this scene in the book! Is there more to it than Renly shamelessly taunting Stannis with the power of Highgarden behind him?

Somehow, I don't feel it was a non-subtle GRRM way to flaunt his sexuality in a 'haha that Renly is a fruit' way. Totally another genre and it would clash with the mood of the scene, in my opinion. Both Stannis and I are confused, and the fact that Stannis keeps coming back to it, this tickles my conspiracy theory radar. Unless it's just a way to show that even a lobster can feel remorse. Idk, will Stannis be killed by a well-thrown giant peach, choked by his afternoon sangria, move to Georgia? Or is there a symbolism that escapes me?

(I am on the third book, fwiw.)

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OMG I WILL CLING TO THIS HOPE FOREVER.

GRRM did say that there will be comebacks in the fifth book. I assumed it would be minor characters but who knows, he's a bag of tricks.

This raises another question: did Loras put on Renly's armor during the battle of King's Landing in the second book? Because so many people saw Renly on the battlefield. Or was it indeed Renly's ghost? I have been hoping to find an answer in the third book but I have been too effing busy to be online or to read lately.

LORAS'S ASS.

BAAHAHAA. I LIKE THAT.

Okay, so I suspected that Loras had something to do with it because he had Renly's body (hahaha, everything sounds porny to me now bc of the comment below).

In fact, the better answer to the question in your comm is again, I want a spin-off with all the characters GRRM bumped off.

WAIT, DOES THIS MEAN THAT STANNIS AND LORAS'S ASS COULD BE LIKE A LEGIT PLOTLINE

I really hope there's an explanation somewhere, cos it seemed so random when I read it. I was like, OH RENLY. XD

IF HE COMES BACK, I WILL DIE OF HAPPINESS. Altho if Renly comes back and Loras dies (considering he's injured) I will cut a bitch. That would just be cruel. But I can see GRRM doing it <_<

LMAO. Yeah, maybe we're over thinking this. It really is that simple.

I know, right? I would have thought that it was some joke that was passing over my head but then Stannis comes back and says he didn't get it either. This peach starts looking anvilicious to me.

Remember you were all sadfaced because you finished reading the books? I'M GETTING THERE FAST. HOLD MEEEEEEEE.

My plan for July 12th: buy the kindle edition. Search on "Loras" before doing anything else. I am so not going to walk into this blind. *clings to things*

Ngl I would be happy in my shippy pants if it's that. I'm twelve and I don't care.

You're giving me hope. I can't see it going unanswered, especially if Stannis is questioning it.

*HOLDS* I am both excited and scared beyond belief to get the next book. If he kills Loras...

(http://tinypic.com?ref=x3vm8h)

Except not really, cos I have to see how it ends. But still, why does he always off my favs?! :/

I kind of see it as a sort of "Telltale Heart." That Stannis really DOES feel bad that his brother is dead. That's how I read his conversation with Davos in CoK.

I have a feeling if he does end up coming back somehow, it will end up being like Dondarrion and Catelyn. The Lord of Light religion thing is really vague at times. That and I really need to reread SoS.

GURL I WOULD BE BITTER.

I quit reading after he killed Ned because I was just shocked, and then I picked up but I was still burned and I put the books away until the show dragged me back. I'm sure I won't stop reading because I still have Jon, Dany, Tyrion and maybe Sansa to root for.

But killing Loras who by now lost EVERYTHING that had meaning to him (Renly, his mad fighting skills and his looks) is like drowning a puppy. Think about it: if GRRM wanted Loras dead, he would have killed him off instead of just wounding and disfiguring. I sense a plotline, bb.

Idk I really don't think GRRM would drag Loras's death out. He has plans for him, big or small. I am really fucking nervous but it's obvious that GRRM just likes to kick characters in their unique soft and sensitive places and see how they deal with it. I don't think he liked Renly as a character but I think he does like Loras.

~tinhatter

That was the more sane explanation that I could see as well. I guess I am rather desperate to have Renly brought back into the books one way or another, so I am inspecting this peach from all sides.

Maybe it IS just a fruit.

Drowning a puppy, lol, truth. A plotline of more angst and misery tho...don't know if I want. I swear these books will break me. Crossing my fingers that the peach does mean something/there will be a resurrection.

Uhm, do you want me to spoiler you straight away on July 12th if Loras is okay?

I'm planning to set up a read-along post ehre where this is the first thing I'm going to tell everyone in the biggest font that livejournal can handle lol. Under the cut, obv.

Yes, that would be awesome! We can celebrate/weep together!

Also, Jaime lost a hand and he's been kind of a reluctant life sensei to our bb Loras. Or it could be my pet Sansa plot that so wouldn't happen but it would be amazing if it did.

I should dial back hope :) I hope it doesn't sound like I'm bitching about GRRM tho, it's out of love. The body count is one of the major series attraction, to me anyway. JUST PLEASE DON'T KILL ANY MOAR CHARACTERS THAT WE LOVE.

sorry, the original pic was so massive...

Edited 2011-06-20 00:40 (UTC)

AND POST GIFS OF OUR FEELINGS. Because no way reading that book would be underwhelming.

(http://tinypic.com?ref=xkx8cj)

I'm very good at that!

Where did your post gooooo? I was just saying that I don't use Twitter because I don't have anything interesting to say in 140 chars but I love it when celebs have real Twitters like Finn, not the ones handled by ghostwriters. I have a Twitter just to follow them but I cringe at people who live for constantly tweeting at celebs about absolutely every breath they take. Idk, I like boundaries.

LOVE TUMBLR THO. I would never leave LJ for it because I find the quality of communication is much better when people actually talk to each other. However, pretty shiny pics are pretty and shiny.

PLEASE GRRM LET ME USE THIS GIF ON 7/12.

I would probably scream if he came back. And then cry. GRRM likes being cryptic, so I have no doubt that we'll be seeing more of the "peach" in one way or another.

Renly's dead and buried in some hidden place by Loras (OMFG I HOPE THEY SHOW THIS SCENE, I WILL CRY FOREVER). So even if he came back to life he'd be... stuck in the ground. D: And idk how I'd feel if he becomes like Cat with his throat half opened, can't talk, blood spilling everywhere etc. etc.

WHATEVS. LOGIC IS NOT NEEDED HERE. COME BACK TO US RENLY BB, COME BACK.

Totally didn't notice that you were on the 3rd book so, uh, possible 3rd/4th book spoilers in the previous comment. Whoops.

I thought that in the original exchange Renly meant what he said after he eat the peach : "A man should never refuse to taste a peach, Renly said as he tossed the stone away. He may never get the chance again. Life is short, Stannis. Remember what the Starks say. Winter is coming" . Renly loves life and lives it to the full. He wants Stannis to relax a bit and start enjoying the life too! Also it is a foreboding of Renly's fate.

Later, Stannis remembers the conversation, but he forgot what Renly ment by it (and may be never got it? even though Renly said it as directly as you can? sometimes we do not hear things that are said out loud..), at the same time he remembers that there was something .. important.

But I guess that Martin did include this as Renly/Loras metaphora as well, of course! So this is multi-layered.

PS; There was also a brothel called The Peach (where genry and Arya stayed)

Edited 2011-06-20 12:03 (UTC)

It's my second read as I skipped forward and read all of the Tyrell chapters even in the last book :) I am wiki-spoilered for pretty much all of the major characters, so it's okay!

You're right, I wouldn't want Renly to come back as That Thing. Esp. after being reminded by the yesterday's finale that this isn't life. I WANT HIM TO COME BACK WITH ALL HIS MOVING BITS AND SNARK INTACT. LOGIC SCHMOGIC :))

I guess I am trying to read into it too hard and it was meant to be nothing more than a characterization moment and a metaphor.

Wouldn't it be neat though if a peach came back to haunt Stannis? In fic and in lit, one of my favorite tricks is when things come back full circle.

Oh god, Gendry in a brothel? Must. read. faster. It's an interesting setting, considering how he came about.

You never know with Martin, we can choke on a peach or something kile that. :D

I do think Renly is dead for good, though. I am sorry!

Oh god, Gendry in a brothel?

He wasn't really in a brothel. :D They stayed because they had nowhere to stay, Arya is all "Let's stay here!!!" and Gendry "Are you sure". I ship them in the show, I always imagined Genry uglier in the book.

Confession time: I really like Gendry. He's a Baratheon and a Tyrell in me can't resist, I guess, and then I love his rapport with Arya, they play off each other so well. Totally ship this.

Also, how about Gendry/Joff? I am probably the only person who would ship that but it's duh!awesome to me and full of irony.

Joff needs someone to be shipped with. Actully, without joke, I do sometimes think that may Joff did not like the girls all that much - there is no indication in the books that the was interested in any of the girls.

I'm so late to this ... I didn't think too much about the peach in that scene, I really just thought it was just Renly taunting Stannis, and, yeah, I guess the peach kinda stands for Highgarden. If it has a further meaning, I really wouldn't know what. I just understood it as a further symbol that Renly was, as Catelyn said, a knight of the summer, who still thought the war was more of a game, nothing to be taken too seriously.

As for Renly coming back ... I want him to come back so he and Stannis can do what they should have done when they met, team up and go BARATHEON BROS BERSERK on the rest of Westeros. I'd love for Renly to come back on way or another and join Team Stannis because he realised that they just hurt themselves and help their enemies if they don't work together. But that's just me loving both Renly and Stannis too much and wanting them to get together and kick everyone's arse. ;) But GRRM being GRRM, I doubt that's going to happen. Also, I'm not sure I want Renly back if he's as much a zombie as Dondarrion and Catelyn.

This theory might be pretty far-fetched, but have you ever heard of fen tao zhi ai (the love of a shared peach) aka manlove? There's this story of a Chinese court official, who bit a peach and found it sweet, so he offered the rest to his lover, the emperor/duke.

Does this mean that Renly is telling his brother to try it, he might like it? Because the shared peach is a symbol of homosexual love, I think.

/rambling soothsayer

When I read that part of the book, I basically saw it as Renly taunting Stannis and implying that Stannis should enjoy the sweeter things in life such as eating a peach instead of being so cold and impersonal all the time. I may be wrong though. It would be mind-blowing if Martin made that peach a Chekhov's gun and haunt the plot in the end.

I agree with this. I think GRRM was aware of this history and worked it into his book.

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